Austin Gray: Hey, welcome back to the Owner Operator Podcast. I'm your host, Austin Gray. In this episode, I'm hosting Luke Eggebraaten. Luke is the founder of Phaser Digital Marketing, where he specializes in helping excavation companies market their services.

He's also a co-host on the Dirt Bags Podcast, where he and his business partner, Luke, talk all things excavation. So if you are in the excavation industry, go check out their podcast—it's the Dirt Bags Podcast. They are on Apple and Spotify.

But I had so much fun hosting him on this episode because we just got to talk shop—we got to talk marketing. And if you're interested in learning more about marketing your service business, then stick around for this whole episode. I do think you'll enjoy it.

Thanks for listening. And as always, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, would you mind to like and follow this podcast if you're enjoying the episodes? You'll get notified whenever we drop new episodes.

And then also, just like building a service-based business, five-star reviews are super important for podcasts as well. So do you mind to just take 30 seconds and leave us a quick five-star review? If you're listening on YouTube, please like and subscribe to the channel to get notified about this.

And then comment what you like about this episode in the comments below.

Let's jump into it. Real quick, I wanted to share with you two agency partners who have helped me grow Bearclaw Land Services. Striker Digital manages all of our SEO services, and they've got us to number one on Google for specific search terms within our local service business.

Cedar Digital Consulting manages all of our social media and YouTube, and they make it very simple for owner-operators like myself. All I have to do is go take photos and videos in the field, upload those on my phone to a shared iCloud album very quickly, and they handle everything else from there—they edit and they publish. I don't have to worry about it; I can focus on growing my business.

So if you're looking for SEO services, check out Striker Digital. That's striker, stryker-digital.com, and for social media, check out Cedar Digital Consulting. That's cedar, cedardigitalconsulting.com.

Luke Eggebraaten: Thanks for having me on, Austin! I appreciate it, dude.

Austin Gray: Absolutely, and thank you for being here! I've been binge-listening to a few of your episodes and re-listened to the one you did with Ryan. Because, funny enough, and I don't remember if I told you this, but the one you did with Ryan was one of the few that I had listened to of Skider Nation.

When you called me, your name sounded familiar, and then when I was listening to your story, I'm like, "I feel like I've listened to your episode." Sure enough, I went back and I was like, "Dude, it is so impressive to hear your story and how you think of things."

But I also just listened to the podcast you did, I think his name is Nick, the most recent one, and his brain too works very similarly to yours. People listening are probably like, "Man, these guys could start any business and feel like, with the right foundation and systems in place, they'll make it work."

I think there's so much truth to that where people complicate business and it's really not too complicated when you get down to it.

Luke Eggebraaten: You're exactly right about that, and one thing I will add to that—thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it—one thing I'm very confident in is, like, give me any service, give me a market, and I will go start that business, and I can get it to 500k—like, hands down, no questions asked. I don't care what it is or where it is.

One thing I will not claim to be able to do, because this is something I'm challenging myself to sort of level up as an entrepreneur, is what do you need to do after you hit that, like, 500k to 750k? You know, maybe for some people it's like a million, right?

It's like you can get to, like, 750k with a small team and with a couple core people who you really trust and if you delegate well, and if everybody has a clear-cut set of responsibilities.

What I won't claim to be great at is being able to take it from that step and replicate it, right? And so, I do appreciate the kind words, but I've got a lot of work to do as an entrepreneur to be able to grow our business in place.

So I actually brought on this guy named John Wilson, and I don't know if you're on Twitter or X, but he is in the HVAC—he's the HVAC electrical—they do septic work, I think, drain cleaning, something like that—but he's at like 23 and a half million right now, and he bought his dad's business at like a million.

And so he came on and sort of talked about the different phases of growth, and that one was really interesting to me because it was just like a master class on what he learned from taking his from 1 million to 23 and a half million and all the different levers you have to pull.

And so that one's definitely worth a listen because I just shut up on that one, and he just talked. It was awesome.

Austin Gray: Dude, that's awesome! What I love about that is when you surround yourself with people that have been there or are currently there.

I'm in a mastermind class where it's all digital marketing agency owners, and we meet in Miami three times a year. When I first joined—I joined two years ago—we were doing about—I’d just gone full-time, and we were about $8,300 monthly recurring revenue.

To join this mastermind, you had to be doing 10k monthly recurring. And so I just kind of lied on my thing and said we were doing 10k. And I was like, "I'll check it out." I came as a guest, and I was blown away—not by the content and the resources that they provided—but just by the people.

And it was so cool because there were 300 of us there, and everyone owns an agency, and everyone has their own niche—digital marketing for lawyers, digital marketing for home service businesses, digital marketing for bowling alleys. I was like, "This is crazy!"

But it was so cool because everyone was at a different place in their business. So we had people doing 50k a month, 30k a month, 150k, 350k a month. But everyone is kind of just like a normal person, and they all have their own quirks, and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and they all have family and friends and hobbies.

And I was like, "Man, this is so cool where you can surround yourself with other people who, a lot of them haven't changed, or have changed for the better as they continue to grow."

And yeah, just fast forward two years—now we're two years into this thing, and I think this will be coming up this March—it'll be my seventh trip to Miami just getting to network and be around these types of people.

But it's really helped us grow and really helped us put systems in place to make sure that we're growing at a controlled pace but also make sure that we're delivering value to our clients.

Because I think if you're losing clients—if you're losing two and gaining three—you don't have a successful business. I think you're going to go down anyway.

Luke Eggebraaten: One thing you said to me early on in our first conversation—just like on the phone—was you do the—and I may butcher it—but you said, "We do the simple things just uncommonly well" or something along those lines.

Austin Gray: Yeah, we build them. We build great—just the marketing basics. We handle those very well for a very specific industry.

Luke Eggebraaten: That's right! Cool, dude! This is why I love bringing on other people who podcast because I love keeping it raw and real. I've already hit the record button, so we're just going to keep it rolling here.

But why don't you just introduce yourself for our listeners? Tell us who you are, where you're from, and what business you run.

Austin Gray: Yeah, so my name is Luke Eggebraaten—very Norwegian last name—but my wife and I were born up north in Minnesota, about 30 minutes apart. We moved down to Nebraska for a few years, and now we live in Arizona.

So we've been here about two and a half years, and we love it. Just had to go from one extreme weather pattern to the other. I started my business, Phaser Marketing, this would have been in 2019, and I started it on the side. I knew I wanted to start a business, and I think similar to you, I knew deep down I wanted to be a business owner.

I didn't know exactly what that was yet. So I didn't come from this marketing background where I was super smart with it, but in college, I got a minor in marketing. And so I thought, "Well, I really enjoy this stuff; I really enjoy making businesses work."

I enjoyed flipping dirt bikes and dune buggies and making a profit on them. So I saw this avenue with digital marketing because I'm 28 years old, so I kind of always grew up with a phone and understand a bit of the social media landscape and websites and SEO.

And so I thought, "Well, instead of going phone books and billboards, I'm going to start a digital marketing agency." But I was also, when I started that, I had a full-time job as a marketing director at an orthodontic practice.

So I got to help bring in—figure out how to bring in new patients and new leads. But then it was such a small office that I found myself actually doing all the x-rays and doing a lot of the exams and treatment planning with the doctor.

So it was a wonderful experience in a small business getting to see the ins and outs of business revenue, how to bring in clients, and how to retain clients just in a different industry.

What really triggered my love for starting a marketing agency is the doctor had hired a marketing agency out of California and had been working with them since 2018. I just remember thinking, "Okay, we were paying this agency a ton of money a month. We loved these people that worked in there; they were so personable, fun, they made us feel good."

And then the third thing, they made me look great at my job—like, they were crushing it for us! Leads were coming in, we had a vision of this year and next year and in five years, and I was like, "Man, I kind of want to start one of those. That would be so much fun."

And so I did. I started one, and we started with digital marketing for small businesses. But then, as we were talking about earlier, I joined a coaching group, and they said, "Luke, if you want to scale and have impact, you need to niche down."

And more importantly, if you want to have impact on an industry, you need to niche down and serve that industry.

And to me, at that point, it was very simple; it was very easy because we had been working with probably about three or four excavation and demolition companies at the time, and some of them were my good friends.

And I just became obsessed with the industry. I said, "Yep, this is easy; we're going to turn away all other business from here on out; we're only going to work with excavation companies."

And that was in 2021—we kind of made that official decision. I went full-time, and it's been a blessing since. And March 1st of 2024 here, we've got about 56 excavation companies working with us full-time around the US and Canada, and it's just such a blessing to see when you invest in an industry and you put forth your best foot what they will do for you and what we're going to continue to do together.

Austin Gray: That's incredible! So how did you go get your first—like, how did you get those first four excavation clients?

Luke Eggebraaten: Actually, let's take it back because you weren't—you weren't specializing in any sort of one industry in the beginning. How did you go get your first client?

Austin Gray: Yeah, I love that question because they're two totally different questions. So our first first client was a real estate agency out of Detroit Lakes, which is my hometown in Minnesota.

And I'd say with that, it was—and this is, I guess, a piece of advice for anyone listening that wants to start a business or has a hobby that maybe they want to start turning into a side business—you just have to be confident in telling people what you do and not being scared of saying, "Like, yeah, what I do is I do digital marketing for small businesses," even if you have zero clients or zero revenue.

You just have to have the confidence to say that! Because if you think about it, you probably know a lot more than they do about digital marketing, and it's not like you're trying to overstep them or anything; it's just the facts.

So being confident and saying, "Okay, I started this business, Phaser Marketing; this is what we do; we work with small businesses." And I launched that on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn, and I think at actually at the time—now that I think about it—I think we gave away a TV, and we sold hats—not this style, but we sold hats, and we had our PM logo on it.

And I think we said, "You know, like and share this post and win a TV." And so I think I would do anything just to create some buzz and excitement around the business.

And that kind of generated some interest from one of my really good family friends who owned this real estate agency in my hometown. They said, "Luke, you know, we do $95 million a year," which obviously, real estate, it's a bit different, but—and we have nobody handling our website, we have nobody on our social media, we have nobody doing anything.

I mean, this is all just word of mouth, which is great, but let's see if you can help us out. So we said yep. And I think at that time, it was—I wanted to group together my services, and so I said it was $800 a month. You'll get website, SEO, paid ads—like all this stuff.

And it went well; it went well. But as most people know, when you have your first client, you're learning more than anything. So I learned so much from them what to do, what not to do, how to operate my business.

And remember too, this is all during my lunch breaks, at night, and in the mornings, and on weekends because I had a full-time job.

But my second client then was a really good friend of mine who reached out—obviously saw we had gone live with the business—and he owned a demolition and excavation company, which a lot of people on here listening probably have heard of—it's Black Iron Dirt.

And his name is Luke Payne, so he's the other Luke. And he's been my longest standing client—a very good friend; went to high school with him. We used to decorate Christmas cookies together with our parents and stuff.

And yeah, we just became really great friends. But then after college, and now in this season, we became really business partners. And then fast forward a couple years, we started the Dirt Bags podcast together, and so we still do that. That's rocking and rolling, and we still work with Black Iron Dirt.

But now we also work with a second company, which is Western Excavation. And they've really taken off and started to explode kind of in that Western North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming. But it's been awesome.

But just going through those first few clients—I mean, even now, like we obviously have a much better rhythm in who we want to work with—but man, you learn a lot in those first few.

And it's exciting, but it can be tough as well.

Luke Eggebraaten: Yeah, definitely! So I'm very interested to hear because we specialize in land clearing and specifically fire mitigation work.

So it's like this blend between—like I think the best way to describe it is it's a blend between being a logger and a tree service.

So there's like this weird unique niche in land clearing for fire mitigation. And when I started my company, I didn't really know the exact direction I was going to go; I just knew that I could operate a skid steer.

I liked operating a skid steer; I could operate a mini excavator, and I felt like there were a lot of small projects up here that these big excavators didn't want to take on.

So in the beginning, I didn't really know if I was going to be like forestry, fire mitigation, tree service, land clearing, excavation. So excavation was something I did consider in the beginning, and I've decided not to move that route with my business.

But I'm always interested. So I am interested to hear you working in the excavation industry. So like your business partner, Luke, you mentioned he has two companies—Western came second after Black Iron, yep? And Black Iron has since dissolved into Western, and that was new as of January 2024.

Austin Gray: Okay! Can we break that down? What—there had to be some sort of marketing strategy there. I love the name, by the way.

Luke Eggebraaten: Yeah! And to give Luke all the credit, other Luke—he and his business partner in Western, Cole—and let me back up a little bit.

So in 2022, I believe it was, they saw an opportunity in Bismarck, North Dakota. So Black Iron is Fargo, North Dakota. Luke got a call from Cole—who lives out in Bismarck—and said, "Luke, I think there's an opportunity here in Bismarck. There's only a couple excavation companies, and some of them—some work might be falling through.

I think there's a great opportunity. Is that something you'd ever consider? We could start a company out here; we could co-own it, and we'll kind of figure it out from there."

And Luke was all on board there. They came up with the name Western Excavation, and then we built their website.

But a lot of it too is just some of the simple things of just calling people, answering the phone—which I know you talk about a lot, which blows my mind how some people don't start there.

But really just showing them that, "Okay, we have young go-getters that are going to get the job done," and they also have newer equipment, GPS.

They were trying to build trust and get in, kind of get into the good old boys club a little bit. But also that good old boys club was kind of falling apart because the stuff wasn't getting done.

So they saw an opportunity; they started that business, and it grew. And this is all public, but it grew—and if anyone's listening and wants to follow along with Luke Payne's journey with this, follow him on LinkedIn; he's amazing on there.

But I believe he said in the one year they grew 200% in revenue. I think they went from 500 to 12.5 million in about a year or so, and so they've just been on this rocket ship.

And to be clear, that isn't from digital marketing—so we work with them. We've always worked with them—but we actually didn't run any ads during that time either.

And so the commercial excavation space is a little different, and a lot of our clients are in that space, and so we're more problem solvers for them than anything.

And we don't always just harp on the leads. And when the leads come in, they're great because they're $1.5 million or $500,000 leads or $5 million leads. It's like, "Yeah, I mean, that'll pay for us for the next 10 years; great!"

But more of what our company does is focus on your online presence: like, does your website accurately represent your company's history, the work you do? Is it updated?

And then also your searchability—if somebody wanted to, could they find you on Google? Just very simple, very basic.

And in the excavation, septic, and landscaping world, it's like the competition level online sometimes isn't that great.

And so it's, like I mentioned, the marketing basics that we do, and we do over a long period of time—we've seen that that can skyrocket some of these companies to the top and really hold a great market share there.

But yeah, Luke and Cole—they've been incredible to work with. They've been on a rocket ship! And then getting—like starting the Dirt Bags in early 2022—that's really helped us give a lot of insight into his business, into my business, and into so many others in the industry.

I think that's what we try and do, similar to your podcast, is just give resources, try and help anyone that does want to listen, and just being very open and honest with them and transparent—and being willing to dive into some of the nitty-gritty stuff that other podcasts or other people don't want to.

Austin Gray: Well, it's funny because some people are like, "Why are you so open with talking about building a business?" And I'm sure you guys get the same questions.

I mean, he’s grown from 500k to 12.5 million in a year! It's like, "That's one—that's awesome!" But two, there are opportunities like that that exist all over the country, and there are plenty of opportunities out there to be had by so many different people.

And so it's like, I can already tell you have this abundance mindset. Luke has this abundance mindset. I've got an abundance mindset.

So as long as we can get on here and riff and talk and share some resources, my hope is that people listen to this podcast and they go, "Holy crap! I know how to run an excavator. You know, maybe I'm on the East Coast somewhere—why wouldn't I start my own business?" That's what I want people to do.

It's like, the first thing I said whenever I started this podcast was, "I want this to be one of the last podcasts people ever listen to before they actually start taking action."

Because we live in this world of content consumption and not action-takers, right?

Luke Eggebraaten: Yeah, it's super interesting too because I just heard you say that, and I loved it! On one of your previous episodes, I think it was just like "I want this to be the last episode you hear before you start your business."

Because there's so much content you can consume, but at some point, you have to apply it, right? And I think that's so, so important.

And from my point of view, there are ways you can do it that are less risky than others. Like some people, they're just like, "Alright, Austin, Luke said go jump in!" and they're going to take out half a million dollars in debt and then not have any work lined up.

It's like, "Well, that's not exactly what we meant." But there are definitely ways to do it where you can rent—or in my case, you can start a marketing agency for an industry that you love and have no debt.

There are ways you cannot pay yourself until you hit a certain threshold and then leave your job, then start paying yourself.

But that all comes from not just taking the first thing you hear and going for it, but like filtering out information. Looking at your situation is probably different than a 22-year-old starting a business, and let's say you have five kids and a wife that stays home—like, you should probably take that into account as well, making sure there's food on the table.

But no, I just—I love that! I love seeing when people take that step and go run their own business. It's one of the most rewarding things that I've been a part of and have gotten to do.

I just, you know, I thank God every day for that opportunity just to be a steward of these resources and say, "Yeah, let's go have fun with it."

We talked about that on a podcast, and I think it's worth bringing up, but a lot of people talk about the hardships and the difficulties in running a business and all the negatives of being self-employed.

And you know, a lot of people kind of joke about it too, but I don't know, I kind of look at the opposite and say, "Yeah, I mean, we probably work a lot, but I would never go back and I just love it so much!"

And the ability to have your own clients and to potentially build your own team and give them a career that they don’t hate, and just to be fruitful with the gifts—it just fires me up!

And then to have business calls and podcasts and things like this—seeing other people do it a certain way and not complain about it or not be negative about it—it just gets me fired up!

So I love when people talk about the positives, especially when it comes to running a business because it can show somebody that it does want to start! "Hey, it's not all doom and gloom like you might see online."

There are a ton of positives to starting your own business and doing it the right way.

Austin Gray: Absolutely! There are so many positives! And just like you, I get fired up by these conversations. It's fun to be around other people who just have this mindset of like there are opportunities everywhere.

So one thing I did want to touch on—you mentioned this earlier—in the excavation world, and I've seen this in tree service, I've seen this in, you know, land clearing—the competition bar online is set low in a lot of these places.

Now, like you go into a place like Denver, or you go to somewhere like Chicago, or New York, whatever, like they're going to be people who are already doing this and who already have Google reviews and whatnot.

But you go to some of these like secondary and tertiary markets, and you pick a specific service like excavation, and you can type it in on Google, and sometimes you'll see people pop up, and it's like, "Oh, they have like two Google reviews and they don't have any posts online."

So we are moving into this age of—your customers are going to be searching online for the services whether you're there or not. So the way I view it is, if you're starting a business right now and you're in your 20s or 30s or even 40s, like one of the first things—if you're going all in on this business—is to like set up an online presence.

And so it sounds like you guys have seen some of those opportunities in the excavation industry, huh?

Luke Eggebraaten: Absolutely! And you hit the nail on the head there. And I think our business model reflects that because I don't think you'll ever hear me say, "Oh, we are the number one design agency in the world," or "We are the best web developers out there."

Like, we build great marketing habits and the marketing basics very, very well for a specific industry, which is the excavation space. And our costs also reflect that.

Like, we're definitely not the lowest bidder. Typically it's about, on average, $1,500 to $1,895 a month or so, but it's built to be that long-term team that gets you what you need.

But you're not overpaying for it, if that makes sense. You're getting the website, you're getting the SEO, you're getting the strategy and consulting; you're also getting the graphic design team.

But you're not paying 10K a month when you're only doing 600k in revenue because that wouldn't make any sense.

And so because we only work in that one industry, and we know, "Yeah, you don't need this right now. Wait until you get to about 1.5, then we'll upgrade you to phase two."

That knowledge of the industry has really helped us price ourselves as well and also price in the value that they need at the current stage that they're at.

Because we have some clients that'll be doing 5 million in revenue, and they don’t even have a website, or they have a Wix website that the owner built in 2019.

And it's like, "Well, we're going to start there. We're going to start you in phase one before we start pounding on the ad spend and all this stuff. You gotta start with a solid foundation."

So just the opportunity is amazing! But also for them, what we've seen is our clients get so excited when they see their brand come alive online.

And they start seeing, "Yeah, this person found me on Google! They typed in 'septic tank installation near me,' and they found me!" I'm like, "That's how this works!" I love it!

And it's just—it fires me up! I’ll use an example. So we have a client, his name's Dave Newby, and he had run his excavation company for about 14 years, I believe.

And he went to the Dirt World Summit in Houston, and we saw each other there. And anyway, he reached out to me and he's like, "Luke, I want to hire you guys and work with you."

And so we got some more details and things, and he didn't have a website, didn't really even have a logo.

So we developed all that, developed his logo, and he's just all involved in the process. He's like, "Oh, I love this one. Can we change this?"

And his team is now getting involved in it. So we finalized the logo, and obviously we used that branding package for his website and just launched his website.

It's just amazing to see his team rally around it too and get excited. And the day the logo was done, he ordered hats, shirts, sweatshirts—like everything! Just branded up!

And seeing that excitement for a guy that's been in the industry for as long as he has really gets me fired up to just continue doing what we do and serving the industry.

And the way I like to put it too is our business isn't—we're not doing this stuff for us necessarily.

Like when you think about when we bring out a new client, like none of it is really for us besides like the revenue bump. But like the website, the logo, the ads—this is all for the industry, all for our client.

And so if ever a client doesn't want to work with us or doesn't feel that the investment is right, it's like, "That is no problem! We can still be friends; we can still hang out. But when they do want to take that next step, when they do see the positive interactions and they do see how this could help their business, it's like, 'Let's do this thing!'"

And so I love using that story because there are people out there and so many of them that do get excited about this and do want to elevate their brand and their business.

At the end of the day, they want to build something special that they could hand off to their kids or grandkids and let it be a legacy and a blessing and not just a curse and a bunch of sticky notes and stuff that's stuck in their head.

Austin Gray: It's so true! And one thing you mentioned there—like the excitement from getting your first online lead—that rush is the coolest thing in the world!

Like whenever somebody fills out the form on your website and it comes to your email—like we've got automation set up, so it's like I get texted our lead information, we get Slack notifications with our team, everything.

But like whenever you get that first one, and it comes to your email, it's like, "Holy crap!" I mean, we help some people in the industry build landing pages too! It's just kind of like lent itself—like what we're doing with Bearclaw has lent itself to that.

Other people asking, and one guy texted me over the weekend, he's like, "Hey dude, do you have a couple minutes to talk?" I was like, "Yeah."

So we jumped on; he's like, "I just got a 25-acre land clearing lead!" I'm like, "Holy crap!" It was the first one that came in after we built the website.

And I just remember that moment whenever it happened in our business, and I could see it and hear it in his voice like, "Holy crap! This can work!"

And these are some big contracts that people are actually searching online for. And then I think once that thing clicks, it's like, "Dude, how do I pump more money straight into this so we get more of that, right?"

Luke Eggebraaten: Dude, and Austin, like you mentioned there too, it's just—well, the industry that we live in and that we serve is just—they're not $50 lawn mowing leads.

I mean, these are big contracts, and I'm like, "It doesn't take more than a couple of these to overpay for everything you've done for the year when it comes to marketing."

And so when you're building sites, and you know how the search engines work, you're like—you can take a look at the monthly search volume and then see the competition or the keyword difficulty, and you're like, "You guys, it is right here! Like, we can go get this."

Normally, it would take sometimes 6, 12, 18 months if it's very difficult, but I think we can do it quicker than that! And then hold that! And it just—it blows my mind! It's super exciting!

I feel like I could nerd out about this all day, and I'm not even an SEO by trade or an ad specialist by trade, but I've just been surrounded by it for so long, and I just—yeah, it doesn't take much in this industry to go a long way online, and I think that's what gets me so excited, is that we don't have to do this blue-sky like, "Yep, you need to pay me $180,000, and we might get there."

It's pretty low investment considering the opportunity that's out there long-term, especially—I mean, when you're talking like you're talking like $1,500 to $2,000, or $1,895—like, if you're talking about that, like, you know, top-in, you're like 25k a year!

One job in excavation or land clearing can literally cover everything in that! And especially when you break that out on a monthly cost, it's like, "It's like two grand here, two grand there, and then all of a sudden a $25,000 job comes in, then a $30,000 job comes in!"

And once that starts to click, it's like, "Holy crap! Let's just keep pumping!"

Austin Gray: Yes! Luke, here's my two grand, please!

Luke Eggebraaten: Right! Yeah, it goes back to that example of me working with that other agency. It's like we were happy to pay them because they weren't an expense—they were an investment!

They were a line item in our business, and we were looking long-term. We're saying, "Yep." So like in that example for me, it's like, "Our salary is 18K a year, and you get a team of 10 that only work in this industry that know exactly what to do; you don't even have to train us."

And it's like, "Huh, maybe there is something to that!" And you don't even have to pay our taxes—that's the great part—is we pay our own taxes!

And so whether they're working with us or somebody like you or somebody like Ryan or so many other of these great quality agencies that serve the excavation space, and I’ll say this—maybe that's one part to clarify—is if you're looking for somebody to work with as far as a marketing agency, think past what their promise is and think about who do you want to work with long-term?

And a lot of times, these giant agencies that it's like, "200 bucks a month," that to me would be a red flag if it's so cheap.

But yeah, just think about, "Okay, as the economy shifts, as search trends change, as maybe I have a tough month here or a tough month there, like who do I want to work with long-term?" And that, in my opinion, is who you should look at.

And there are tons of great options out there, and but if it were me, I would look for somebody industry-specific that knows your industry so that you don’t have to train them the difference between an excavator and a dozer as they're updating your website.

And it's just—it's going to typically be a bit more work for you.

Austin Gray: Absolutely! It 100% is!

So let's talk excavation marketing. You have Phaser Marketing, and I'm taking a wild guess that Phaser came from the different phases that you take people through—is that correct?

Luke Eggebraaten: Dude, so 99% yes! So it developed into that!

So let me—so the story of how—the hardest thing I've ever done in business was come up with the name. To this day, that is the hardest thing I've ever done!

And so we were living in Nebraska at the time; we had a bottle of wine, my wife and I, and we said, "Alright, we know we want to start an agency; we just got to come up with a name."

And we had probably 200 ideas, and this is before ChatGPT. And so we had like 200 ideas, and they were awful! Like, we were just cramming words together and like trying to do different languages and something-something marketing, and I'm like, "Man, this is not going well."

And then finally, we would get one, and I'm like, "I kind of like that!" Like one was "V Marketing," I think, which now I don't even really like it. But I was like, "That's it!" And then we look, and it was already taken!

So it was just this whole mess! And so we actually stopped, we finished the bottle of wine, and we're like, "Alright, we got to take a break."

And so two weeks later, I was looking up, "How do you find a good name for your business?" And one piece of advice I saw was, "If you can think about what you want to offer in your business or what your company embodies, that would be great to somehow add into your name."

And so I took a step back and I said, "Okay, what do we—why are we starting this?"

And really, the way I looked at it was when you think of a company or business owner, especially in excavation—when they think about digital marketing, there's a thousand of these ping pong balls up here that need to happen for it to work.

So there's website, SEO, content, paid ads, Google LSA ads, graphic design—there's all these things going. But what this business owner needs to see is just three simple phases, and they can understand that.

So these—all these ping pong balls will go like, "Okay, phase one—that's set your foundation; phase two—that’s grow your brand; phase three—will dominate your market."

And so that's really how it started. And then I just tossed an "r" on there, so Phaser—and it was available! I was like, "Sweet!" And I fell in love with it.

And then, a couple years ago—so this would have been probably early 2022—we used that to develop our program.

So we used to do just packages where we'd build a website or we'd build you a logo and bill you for it. And then I just realized that that's not the business we wanted to be in.

We wanted to be in long-term partnerships with our clients. We wanted to be a digital marketing department. So I said, "We have to change our vocabulary—there's no longer packages in our business; it's only programs."

Because the great thing about programs is we do what we say we're going to do; you do what we say you're going to do, and like, the program works!

But at any point, there can be a leak. Let's say we're missing our deadlines—that's on us! Or the client isn't going out getting Google reviews—that’s on them!

And so it's very easy to follow the program—or another analogy is stay on the bus. No matter what, we're driving the bus, and it's going to a destination.

If you want to get off the bus and do something else, that’s fine, but you're not going to hit the destination where we're going. And so we really used that to create those phase one, phase two, phase three programs that are tailored to where you're at in revenue.

So phase one is tailored for six-figure excavation companies and up. Phase two is seven figures, and phase three is kind of more of a custom eight-figure client.

So it really helped us when we developed that name based on more of our core values and what we want to deliver, but then develop our pricing structure in that—keep it very simple, very cut and dry—just this is what it is; it's the marketing basics.

This is what you need. If you want to take the ride with us, jump on!

Austin Gray: You mentioned something there, and thank you for explaining all of that! That makes a ton of sense.

So phase one is for six-figure companies and revenue, right? Phase two is seven-figure and revenue, and then phase three is eight-figure revenue.

So have you found that it only makes sense to work with companies who have already figured out how to get to that first 100k of revenue like on their own—just like through being scrappy, picking up the phone and calling, and going and getting jobs in their local market?

Luke Eggebraaten: Yep! So that's a great question!

So there’s actually—I like to call it like a phase zero—and that would be 0 to 500k in revenue. That’s the bootstrapping stage! So you don't need an agency at that level. If you're doing 400k in revenue or 300k, you do not need an agency, and you shouldn't be paying for an agency.

There are—and we have recommendations, so if anyone is listening, and they're like, "Well, how do I get a website up?" I have lots of great friends that'll build a great website, and they know what they're doing, but they won't have the ongoing cost.

So yes, getting your foundation set, getting a good website—that's very important! But like you mentioned, you need to go to the basics of learning how to answer the phone, setting up your own Facebook page, setting up—learning how your website works—and just really diving into the nitty-gritty of it.

Because when you do get to that point of, let's say, 600k in revenue, 700k, then you're kind of ready for that next step. It's like, "Okay, I'm going to now hire an agency to help me with this!"

But I actually understand what they're doing now because I've been doing a bit of it.

So—and then to also add on to your point, we vet our clients very heavily. If a client comes to me and says, "Luke, we need you to save my business!" or "We're falling like crazy, and I'm going to pay you a bunch of money, and you're going to save my company!"

That's not how it's going to work, and I need to make sure that they're in the right headspace and they're in the right mindset—that financially they're also going to be okay to make this work long-term.

And also, they have the right attitude towards business and towards life and how they treat their clients and how they treat their team members.

If we sense that they're going to be a problem to their own clients and their own employees, they're not going to be a good fit for us just because it's not who we want to work with.

And I would rather turn down five of those potential clients to bring on the one that is on fire for this stuff, that wants to make an impact, that wants to serve their community.

And like you, you are the one we want to work with! And so instead of having 150 clients, or 200 clients right now, we have 55, and we are very, very confident in those 55, and they are some of the best out there.

They range from 500k in revenue to 40 million and everything in between. But they will—I would give them the shirt off my back, and I would stand up for them, and almost all of them would do the same for me and our team.

So having that camaraderie and that like-mindedness in business and in life is definitely what we look for. But it all starts from that bootstrapping stage of going through the stages of, "Okay, we need to figure this out on our own first. We can ask questions, we can text Austin, we can text Luke. We'll ask questions from others in the industry, but we got to take care of this ourselves!"

And then as we scale up and we're ready to take that next step, then we can make that call.

Austin Gray: So let's talk about that zero to 500k mark. So let's say—and I think this is completely different for someone who is like almost more like an investor type who’s coming in and like, "Hey, I've got cash. I'm going to start this excavation business!"

Yeah! Let's ramp this up! Let’s rock and roll! Let's go to 12.5 this year! This isn't for that person. This question is specifically for, "Hey, I'm an operator at another excavation company. I want—I know I want to do my own thing. I've got this entrepreneurial itch. The bug has never gone away. It's been here for the last six years, and I'm about to go crazy if I don't go start my own thing."

What are some recommendations to get to the point to where you would take them on in your phase one specifically? What are the phase zero recommendations you would coach people on who are starting their excavation business?

Austin Gray: Yeah, so with that one—and I'll just take this from, if you're in that 0 to 500k or you're just starting—these are the main foundational things that you can do today, and a lot of them are free.

But here are the main things you can do:

First of all, the name and the logo. I mean, that should be easy, but a lot of people skid by that! Get a good name, a good logo.

If you're looking for somebody to design your logo and you don't want to go with the local place, there are a couple websites out there where you can outsource it—so Upwork.com, U-P-W-O-R-K.com, even Fiverr. We had our logo made on Fiverr, and it was like $35 four years ago.

So there are options out there! Get a good logo and a good name built out. The next thing would be to create social media channels for your business.

And so this is even if you're not full-time yet, even if you haven't started the business—just get them created! Because now you have a name and a logo to go in that little bubble.

So Facebook business page, Instagram company page, LinkedIn company page. And then most importantly, make sure you get a Google business profile set up.

And those are the big four I like to call them when it comes to social media—most of them are overlooked. But here's the differences between them and why you should use all four:

And when I say use all four, just cross-post the same post to each one! You don’t have to get fancy; you don’t have to overthink it. Even myself, I own a marketing agency, I don't even change my content between the four.

And they all serve a different purpose! So Facebook, the reason that's important—typically, you'll find your residential customers, your family, friends, your community will be on there.

Don't sleep on it! I wouldn't scroll on it too much, because you'll find a lot of stuff you don't want to see. But if you're going to post on your company page, make sure it goes on Facebook.

Your Instagram company page—that's very important as well! There is a Dirt World cult going on where there are so many entrepreneurs on there from all sizes.

And what we've seen is that if you're on Instagram and you have an issue come up—let's say you're putting in a septic tank and something went wrong—you could throw that up on your story, and you'll have people from all over the country, all over the world, jump in and help you out!

And that's the community that's been built on Instagram!

The third is LinkedIn—this is by far my favorite. Having a LinkedIn company page—you need a personal page to create that. So having both.

But the LinkedIn company page—this is typically where your CEOs, your project managers, you know, your presidents, things like that—they'll be hanging out.

And a lot of times, I can just be, "Hey Luke, I've been seeing your posts! Love what you guys are doing! I want to invite you to be on my bid list!"

And you know, we've got a big project coming up up north—is that something you'd be interested in helping us out? It's like, "Yeah!"

And a lot of times those big deals, those big contracts can come just from a quick DM from a president or a CEO of these GC's or construction companies.

And then lastly, your Google business profile—a lot of people miss this part, but they—that's where your Google reviews are and your information and your call button and your website button.

But there's a social media element to it as well. And so there are updates.

And so whatever you post on your Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, post the same post on your Google business profile because the search engine now will start to pick up on these keywords.

They will start to pull from—if you're talking about a new install you just had with a septic tank, and you're talking about how many yards of dirt you brought in, what type of system you're using—Google will start to pick up on those keywords.

So when you look back, that one post that you developed and you put across all four platforms, you're hitting four totally different markets.

And that's why I don't like to segment myself to one market because you never know when somebody will come and help you out—even if it's not who you expected!

So definitely when you look back at those three things I just talked about—the getting your social media profiles going, your Google business profile, and your logo and name—there's not much cost at all to those.

But those are huge steps to get your business started and to get it going!

But then to get in that consistency to now climb the ladder past 500k!

Luke Eggebraaten: Man, that is awesome! You just gave like the marketing masterclass for starting your business, like the zero-cost way to just get in front of some people.

Now, the other side of this is you've got to have some content to work with! So, there is a side of this where you've got to figure out a way to go get your first job.

We don't have to spend a ton of time on this. I talk about it in other episodes, but look, if you need content, just go get your first job.

And you can do this by door knocking. Like you can just go down neighborhoods, knock on doors—"Hey, you need any help with land services around your property?"

Right? And once you get that, then you have the content to work with to publish across those channels.

Do you have any other recommendations? That’s sort of like my recommendations. I also do flyers, door hangers, things like that.

We're really implementing this in Bearclaw right now because we launched a new service location. So I'm like drinking my own Kool-Aid right now in my day-to-day! I'm literally five minutes, going to get on the road to Denver and going to go do this exact same thing!

But right, you are the guest here! What other recommendations do you have for getting those first jobs, or what have you seen work well for some of your other clients?

Austin Gray: Yeah, first of all, like you mentioned with that very, very first client—if you or I have to tell somebody how to go get that first one, they're in the wrong business because it's out there!

They can go get it; they just got to be a 1% scrappy and go make it happen! My favorite thing, though, is when you do get that client, overdeliver for them!

Get your content; get your photos! Shake their hand and get a Google review! But then don't let it die there! Continue to repurpose that, continue to show others their experience that they had working with you!

And that goes with showcasing the before and after picture, showcasing the problem that this customer had.

And one of my favorite things that I like to tell people of this kind of gets two birds—is the content side of things in the social media, but also how to get more clients is let them see into your business of what you're doing and why!

So a lot of people don't understand why you're offering this service. But if you nerd out on your post of what you're doing, how many yards of dirt you brought in, how many guys you had on, how long you’re on-site, why the customer called you, and then how you patched it up—and all things are good now—that will give these other clients or potential clients an inside look at, "Oh man, I'm having that same issue!"

Or "Oh, I can see this potential in my space as well!" So nerd out on your social media! Don't try and please anyone!

Talk about what you did and why and be yourself! Be the expert in the conversation, be the expert in the industry! And you’d be surprised at how many people don't know what you do and why, and what they can learn from your post!

So, go out, make it happen! Get yard signs, get business cards made, join the chamber!

Like there are so many things you can do! Tell people what you do! Like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, be confident in what you do!

Tell people how you can help them and serve them! Jump on the phone with bigger construction companies, GCs, even your competitors and say, "Hey, if you have any work that you don't want to do, that you think is ply stuff, let me know! I'm here to help! I'm here to serve you! We're just getting rolling!

Let me know! Here's my hourly rate, or you let me know what works with you!" There is so much out there that you don't even realize, but you have to pick up the phone and make the call and let people know that you're available because they're probably not going to call you!

And that, I think, that's just your ego and a little bit of humility of just knowing, "Hey, I'm going to have to pick up the phone, make it happen!" and let people know, "I'm available, and I'm ready to work!"

Luke Eggebraaten: Dude, you nailed it on that! And one thing we haven't touched on was calling your—I mean, essentially, they're your competitors. It's like same people in your industry.

But yeah, a lot of these companies, especially baby boomer-owned companies who are like old established—they're tired! They're not taking on—their phone rings all day long, and they turn down jobs left and right!

Like, "I don't have time for this! I don't have time to do that driveway; we're doing a $25 million horizontal, you know, like septic or excuse me, like sewer and water install!" Right?

Like, they're not taking on the driveway! So if you can call that guy and say, "Hey, my name's Austin. I literally just bought a skid steer, or you know, I'm renting a skid steer; I'm doing some dirt work on the side.

I'd love to sub—be a sub on any of your jobs! If you've got stuff that I can supplement you with, you can even make money off the top! We'll come to an hourly rate for my operator and my equipment, and then you can just charge the client, you know, a 10, 15, 20% markup!"

So it's like, if you approach these other subcontractors like that, they're all looking for good help! They all have more work than they know what to do with!

If you can just position yourself as, "Hey, I'm adding value to you! And you can make money off of me if you want to to your customer." I can't tell you how many people have called us, you know, 18 months in, and those early phone calls—you may not get stuff right away!

But once people start knowing that you're in the game, it's like it comes back six, 12, 18 months in, and all of a sudden, these jobs just start flowing in—specifically, even from your competitor!

So thank you for touching on that because that is—that is gold right there!

Austin Gray: Yeah, it's huge, man! And a lot of it is non-digital marketing activities, if you notice, especially when you're starting out. It goes hand-in-hand, but a lot of it is the grind of just making it happen.

And as you've seen too and as so many others, it's out there! You can make it happen; you just got to pick up the phone, call, get a little creative. But it's out there for sure!

Luke Eggebraaten: Well, Luke, we're at the hour mark. I could—I would be willing to guess we could go till about noon on different topics!

So I'm going to say I'm sure you have plenty of meetings to get to, so I'm going to be respectful of your time.

Let's wrap this one up! Let's do version two! Let’s bring Luke on! Let’s do version three! Let’s do version four! I think we can do—I love what you guys are doing!

I was listening to some of your episodes last night on the drive back from Denver, and I'm going to throw some on my drive down to Denver today!

Austin Gray: Awesome! But what episode would you recommend me listening to on my drive down today?

Luke Eggebraaten: Oh, if you haven't yet, I'm actually wearing his shirt! So the Canadian Septic episode, we actually talk about buying a business.

He bought a septic company up in Canada, and he came in from sales, like he was just a corporate guy and was looking to buy a business. But he's a good friend of ours, and it was fascinating talking with him of, you know, how did you know you’d buy a septic company?

He loves numbers; he looks at all that; he looks at opportunities. So listening to that one would be a good one! And then if you end up jumping on YouTube, we just launched a bit of a higher quality YouTube episode.

We did a live show in Michigan, and it's the MSTA conference. So that would be a good one if you're jumping on YouTube, but definitely listen to James's with Canadian Septic on your drive, and then if you get in front of the big screen or the movie theater, we can do the MSTA one.

Austin Gray: Alright so that’s the first one I’ll listen to on my drive down. What should I listen to on my drive back up?

Luke Eggebraaten: Number two, episode-wise, number two—I would go with, so have you looked into our Dirt Bags University yet?

Austin Gray: I was listening to that one yesterday.

Luke Eggebraaten: Okay, cool! So then I would go back a little bit. I would do—do you have you listened to the Ken White one or the Taylor White?

Austin Gray: No, I haven't yet, but I've seen them on YouTube.

Luke Eggebraaten: Yeah, so I would listen to that one. So it's a bit of a more classic one, a bit older, but it's our highest episode by far as far as downloads, and that's always an entertaining one is having Taylor on.

So I would definitely listen to that one, and we need to revisit that as well because his business has changed so much, but that's definitely an entertaining one to listen to on the way back.

Austin Gray: Are they one of your clients?

Luke Eggebraaten: Not one of ours, but we've known Taylor for a long time. So he—and we met up with him at CONEXPO, and yeah, we do a lot with him.

So we, on the CONEXPO podcast with him and with him as the host, and so we definitely do a lot with them.

Austin Gray: That's cool. Yeah, they're awesome! Well, thank you for those recommendations! The other excavation one we have on—I don't know if you've checked it out, but Garrett Williams up in Big Lakes, Minnesota—that dude is awesome!

I love watching his stuff! He's got—he reminds me of—you guys remind me a lot of each other because you got the same accent, and you've got like a very similar outlook on life! And it's just like this positive energy that both of you guys have about your business!

Luke Eggebraaten: So thank you! Check that one out if you haven't because!

Austin Gray: Yeah, Garrett's awesome!

Luke Eggebraaten: Yeah, Garrett's a dog! We had him on the Dirt Bags as well, early on. We talked finances and numbers, but yeah, he's amazing.

He, him and I stay in touch here, and he's fascinating just with what he's been able to accomplish, him and his sister and their whole company.

And like you said, just the outlook they have on life and their business—that's more of what I'm drawn to, and it's no secret that they're having success from that and from the hard work that they continue to put in.

Austin Gray: For sure! And like, pop on their list is just like taking care of their people. You can just tell, and they don't even have to tell you that, right? You just see it!

They attract the right customers because of how they do that, and yes! So if anyone doesn't follow them, I believe it's GM Outdoor on Instagram or Garrett Williams, but they're incredible to follow along with and get advice from!

And they're just doing business the right way!

Luke Eggebraaten: 100%! They're like the model of what—I mean, I don't know if I was going to go into excavation, like I would just want to build it just like G has!

Austin Gray: Right! Luke, thank you so much for being on! We—I see many more of these in the future!

Luke Eggebraaten: Awesome! I appreciate it, man. This is a great, great way to start my morning! Thank you for the opportunity and having me on!

And we're just so excited to look at having you on to the Dirt Bags and just continue this relationship and, you know, keep the ball rolling here!

Austin Gray: Sounds good! Where can people find you, your company, your podcast, all that stuff online?

Luke Eggebraaten: Yep! So our website phasermarketing.com—that's where you can find everything! You can also find us on all social media, so that would be Phaser Marketing, my personal account Luke Eggebraaten, or Dirt Bags, which is Official Dirt Bags Podcast.

You can listen to the show on all platforms—so Spotify, Apple Podcast, Pandora. And then YouTube—that’s just Dirt Bags Podcast.

And you can also shoot me a message anytime, so I manage all of those accounts. You can shoot me a DM. If you ever have any questions or anyone wants to reach out or jump on a call, just let me know, jump on social media, and we'll get something set up from there!

Austin Gray: That is awesome! Well, make sure to go give Luke’s websites, companies, all that stuff a look! And then go check out the Dirt Bags Podcast!

So I'll do a plug right now for the Owner Operator Podcast and Dirt Bags Podcast: if you go listen to either of these—well, if you’re listening to this right now and you like these episodes, please make sure to like, comment, and subscribe on YouTube.

If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, we would love it if you would like and follow! And then, just like service businesses, five-star reviews are super important!

So would you take 30 seconds right now if you’re enjoying these episodes, leave us a five-star review—we would love you forever for it! Likewise, I'll do a plug for the Dirt Bags Podcast: after you listen to this one, go check out those episodes that Luke mentioned, and then would you mind to just do the same?

Like, the five-star reviews! They greatly help us! Once again, just like building a service business, podcasts—five-star reviews are super important as well!

Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode, and we’ll see you guys in the next one. Without further ado, we’ll wrap this one up! See you, Luke!